Rocky: 0:01

Get a chance tonight to talk some final four hoops with the coaches. I got Coach P back. I got Coach Paggs back tonight. I'm excited to talk. I want to get the guys' thoughts on Cooper Flagg, Mr Broome from Auburn. There's been a lot of debate going back and forth who's the player of the year. This final four is going to be a really good matchup. We'll get the guys' thoughts on that.

Rocky: 0:23

This is the first time in a long time I've went chalked throughout my picks and a couple of my brackets. I'm like third out of like 50 to 100 people and normally I'm kind of in the middle of the pack because I do go with a lot of upsets in the first couple rounds. So I want to give you some of the bracket talk and much more. So make sure to stay tuned. The Rack Pile is coming right back at you. All right, welcome to the Rock Pile here tonight. The Rock Pile tonight brings the Final Four show. Hard to believe that Saturday is the National Semifinals and then Monday night will be the National Championship game. Hard to believe college basketball is coming to an end. You got the Lady Final Four that starts Friday night and then their final game will be on Sunday night and the boys will be on Monday night. So, without further ado, let's bring on the coaches here. We'll get Coach Paggs, Coach P. What's going on, gentlemen? How are we tonight?

Coach Pags: 1:33

Doing great, doing great. What's going on, boys?

Rocky: 1:36

Well, I was telling you guys before we got started. I walked in the house. My wife was at soccer with my daughter, my son was at baseball tryouts and I at soccer with my daughter, my son was at baseball tryouts. And I walked in the door and I said I got to go downstairs. And she said for what? I said I got to go talk hoops with the guys. She goes all right, well, nice talking to you too. So that's kind of how my my night went.

Rocky: 1:53

But we got a really, really good uh final four and we'll get to that in just a little bit. And I was saying before we came on, this is the first year, like I don't know, I we talked about it, I think, last week that there's not a lot of upsets. There was only what one buzzer beater, the kid from Maryland, had, the buzzer beater in the Sweet 16 game. We really haven't seen any of those this year. You got chalk in the final four, which the more I've been thinking of these matchups, coming in tonight to talk with you guys, I think they're two really good games and four really good teams. I think any of these four teams can win it. But what's your guys' thoughts, pags, I'll start with you first. What's your guys' you know what's your thoughts been like this tournament and you know the final four teams that we got. That we'll dive into here in a second. But what's your early thoughts?

Coach Pasiak: 2:39

Well, I agree, I think the four teams you have here, I think any four of these teams, can win the national championship. I think you honestly have the four best teams in the country playing college basketball at the end of the year, which is what you want, right? I mean, I know people have complained, and myself included, that March Madness this year didn't have that same excitement that we've had in the past with those buzzer beaters. But the four number ones getting getting to the final four, um, I mean, isn't this what we want at the end of the day, when we talk about a lot in college football, how we want the best, the best teams playing at the end of the year, um, I think that's exactly what you have. I mean you got the four number ones and I mean nobody, nobody's really saying there's this should have been a different number one.

Coach Pasiak: 3:21

All four of these teams are, you know, legitimate number ones, with no one's complaining that these are not number one teams should be out there and they've really have proved themselves throughout the tournament. I mean all four of these teams have really rolled throughout the tournament. I mean florida a little bit of a scare in the last game, but they, they showed uh resilience and they showed how they can uh fight back as like a 10 point lead with about five or six minutes left and they just just came right back. So I think it shapes up for a really good weekend, really fun weekend of basketball. I think we're going to see really good basketball this weekend.

Rocky: 3:52

What do you think, Coach?

Coach Pags: 3:54

I think I mean these four teams, if you're big in the analytics. I mean they've been the top four teams in the Ken Palm since February, in some order or another, so I mean it's no real surprise. I think what's kind of happened and we talked a little bit last week when you had 16 teams all from power conferences, and I think it's kind of manifested itself even more in the finals is that you know, the rich are going to continue to get richer.

Coach Pags: 4:22

I think in this era, with NIL and the transfer portal and everything, I think that it's going to be harder and harder for that team to come out of the pack because the advantage that they used to have you know the mid-major, or the team that goes on the late run and gets deep into the tournament, you know Elite Eight Final Four as a surprise they typically have the veteran team that had been together three, four years with really good guard play and sometimes that would be enough to overcome maybe the more individually talented team with less experience, the guys that were going to be the one and done, one and two year guys and then going to the NBA. So I think now what happens is those really good players at the low major and mid-major level. They're not staying four years. You know they're guided to. You know player of the year, all-conference rookie of the year at one of the mid-major leagues.

Coach Pags: 5:16

You know they're in the portal and they're getting paid at one of the high-major schools. So I think what we're seeing this year is probably kind of going to be the trend in the foreseeable future.

Rocky: 5:27

You know I want to talk a little bit about the Elite Eight games first. And you know I want to start with the Florida-Texas game because Coach Cal Arkansas had the big lead against Texas Tech. They blew that game late and then Texas Tech has Florida on the ropes. I think Texas Tech was up nine with what two, three minutes to go in a game and then Walter Clayton Jr hit a couple big threes. They got Florida back in it and once they got ahead they closed it out late. And I feel like in football we say toughness, hard-nosed defense wins championships and good guard play in the NCAA tournament, this Final Four and even through these Elite Eight games, coach P, the guards and the toughness of these teams to me is what's really stood out.

Coach Pags: 6:09

Yeah, you know I think the toughness, but you know there's got to be some shot making too a little bit. But I think the common denominator of all four of these teams is I think they can all like Auburn, I think, has really improved defensively. So I think all four of these teams really guard and you know Florida we talked about last week when they got by UConn it was like that was the game you know where. If you're a top team, there's one test and you know they got another one in the last go round and they passed them versus you know it's been.

Coach Pags: 6:42

Duke has kind of had their way up until a little bit. They got challenged in the last round, so that's a really fascinating matchup, if you know. If we get to that point, florida and Duke.

Rocky: 6:52

Coach, I want to ask you this. One of them pegs. I'll ask you a different question, but you know they're making a lot of this and you guys are the hoop guys, so you can break this down better than I can. But you know I was really watching duke because duke really shut alabama down and alabama lives and dies by the three right, if they're really hot, I think the game before they hit what 25 threes um in the sweet 16 game to get to the elite eight. But one thing that duke does that I've heard all week and through this tournament is they switch on all ball screens um. And now, don't get me wrong, they're really talented. They got three or four guys that could go in the first round of the NBA draft. But, coach, talk to us a little bit about how does that benefit a team like Duke or any team that can switch and play different spots?

Coach Pags: 7:36

Well, it benefits Duke because they switch all ball screens and they're really long on top of that. So a team like Duke, they've got guys that are interchangeable enough. So, and because they're so long switching on ball screens, I mean you don't punish them because they they're running out the you know the six foot point guard and you know you're creating a mismatch where you're throwing it in on your big on him or vice versa, where you're they're getting, you're getting your quick guy matched up on their, on our five man that can't move. But because they're long and because they're interchangeable, it's really really tough.

Coach Pags: 8:11

The way the game is now, it's become so much about creating, like college basketball, it's become a little bit like the NBA, where they run offense to create the matchup versus offense to score off the action, and so when you can switch every screen as well as Duke does, you kind of take that away from the offense? They were phenomenal in the last round. I mean the way they got out and contested. I mean you know, if they play at that level, it's going to be really difficult for anybody to beat them.

Rocky: 8:39

I feel like when we talk about, when we get into the two final four games is I feel like you have Houston that last year, if they could shoot the ball better than they did last year, I think Houston had a really good chance to win the national championship. But I feel like this year you got Houston. It's that experienced team toughness, hardcore defense. They're going to get after you, they're going to defend you. I feel like Duke's the more athletic team. They got the superstars, they got who I think is the player of the year in Cooper Flagg. But then you look at Florida and people may say Florida might be the deepest team. And then you got Auburn, who is playing really well right now and the broom kid goes down, but then he comes back in the game. When he's in the game, man, he is dominant on the floor. It was incredible. But I mean, I feel like these four teams, they're all different in style.

Coach Pasiak: 9:28

Pegs, I agree. I think that when you mentioned that duke and houston matchup, you know, everyone talks about how good houston's defense is, and they are, they're phenomenal, but they're going against duke, who is just as good. I mean, coach was just saying that. I mean, you know. So now you have a matchup of of two good defensive teams matching up against each other. So now the next question is all right now, now, whose offense is going to shine? I mean duke. Duke is I. I think duke is the most talented team left in the tournament. I mean, we talked about how big they are, how long they are, um, but their shooting is phenomenal and that's that's where I think is gonna. That's that's where I think this game comes down to, what it comes down to. I think Duke just has more guys where Houston is going to play great defense, but do they have enough to stop that Duke offense? I don't think so. I mean you go through that Duke lineup five freshmen, obviously, with Cooper Flagg leading the pace, but then you have Connick Knipple, who's phenomenal, he's the best scorer out there, and then you just keep going down the list Tyrese Proctor, just as good, and then you've got the big man, malash, or however you ever say his name. I mean, if you stop one guy, they've got four more guys to go at you. So I think it's going to be tough. And I know Coach mentioned the Ken Palm rating. Duke is one of the highest in the Ken Palm rating, I think their second I was reading today second to the 1999 Duke team. So they've been up there all year. I mean, so that's going to be a great matchup.

Coach Pasiak: 10:59

And then same thing with Florida and Auburn. I think Florida is another situation where they're just more. I think there is another situation where, um, they're just more. I think there's just more talent that they have more players out there than Auburn. But Auburn is just so tough. I mean you saw, um, that game with a kid that gets hurt, his shoulder gets hurt, he goes out, he comes back in and takes a three, knocks down a three-point shot. You know it's like that's toughness. I mean that's when it when, when it comes down to when you're hurt and you come out and do that. I mean he just turned it up to another level. I haven't heard too much about his injury and where he's at. They haven't released too much information on it. I came in probably close to the vest, but that's going to be a big key Like how healthy is that kid?

Rocky: 11:45

I know he went out and did everything, is he? That's going to make a big difference. Coach, I feel like this Florida-Auburn game all week so far, when you turn on the radio I hear everybody talking about it. I feel like nobody's given Auburn a shot against Florida. I keep hearing well, florida's got. You know, florida plays eight or nine guys. They wear you out. Florida went into Auburn during the regular season, was up big on them and then they held on to beat Auburn by 9 or 10, I think it was. But I feel like nobody's given Auburn a shot. When Auburn plays well and they can defend and the broom kid is as dominant as he's been. Are we overlooking Auburn in this game?

Coach Pags: 12:17

Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. I think Florida was kind of the trendy pick coming into the tournament. I think a lot of people, um were kind of riding a Florida train coming into the tournament. Um, you know, if you didn't like.

Coach Pags: 12:32

Duke, you like Florida, though that would that they would like the people, that people, that people were latched onto. Um, you know it's going to be no surprises. I mean those two teams familiar with each other other. I think Broome's got to be close to the top of his game. He could be the difference maker. But I mean Clayton's been really good for Florida too. So you know you would think that if it comes down to close game, it would be one of those two guys you know with the ball at the end of the game and it's whoever can make the play. But you know I and be one of those two guys with the ball at the end of the game and it's whoever can make the play. But I think Auburn's got a puncher's chance in this game. Most people like Florida, but it wouldn't shock me to see Auburn win this game at all.

Coach Pasiak: 13:15

I think with Florida they're a great offensive rebounding team, probably the best rebounding team left in the tournament. But sometimes they get into the turnover game so they've got to reduce turnover. If Auburn can force some turnovers and get on the boards with them, I think it'll be a close game. Last time they played it was, I think, 90 to 81. So it was a close game. In that game, florida putting up 90 points on them. So you know they definitely got a chance.

Rocky: 13:41

I think Florida's deeper, but I think with Auburn if they can stay healthy. I think we talked about it last week. I think Auburn lost like their last three out of four games. They really struggled defensively. They started the year. I mean, they were hot right out of the gate. I think they were 18, 19 and 0 or 19 and 2, something crazy. And then they lost three out of their last four. They didn't really defend well. I think defensively they're playing really good and again I keep saying it, the broom kid's on the floor because they'll match up with Florida's size inside. But when you look at the tournament, all these tournaments over the years, it comes down to the stars and I don't think there's anybody that's been as good as Walter Clayton coached throughout this tournament.

Coach Pags: 14:20

No, yeah, I mean he has been. I mean he's been their money guy we talked about. You know how they've been pushed a little bit a couple different times in this tournament and he's the guy where the ball is going to be in his hands at the end of the game. If you know, if the game's in doubt.

Rocky: 14:39

And then, of course, one of the storylines is you got the mentor and Bruce Pearl and the mentee and Todd Golden. And Todd Golden of course I'm a West Coast Conference guy was at San Francisco for a little while. I think he played at St Mary's too, which I think was a really good story. But when you look at these two coaches it's like you want to see. I'd love to see Bruce Pearl get one and play for a national championship. But you know, you see these younger guys come in like like Todd Golden and the job he's done at Florida.

Rocky: 15:09

I think it'll be a great game, I think the best of the two games. I think this is going to be a really good game too, and I think you could probably flip a coin. We'll pick it at the end. That Houston-Duke game to me, I think the winner of that game wins this whole thing. I think Houston's got the firepower defensively, what they did to Tennessee I love Rick Barnes too but they got out of the gate fast coaching. The way they defend Tennessee was operating their offense outside the three-point line. They couldn't get to the rim.

Coach Pags: 15:44

The first half of that game. Tennessee was completely taken out of their element in the first half. I do think, though, the one that Pag touched on a little bit earlier the one thing that differentiates this Houston team. Houston's been really good defensively for a number of years, just physical tough. They rebound like crazy. That's the other thing. They've been dominant on the glass, but I think the thing that differentiates this team is this team can shoot the ball too, yeah. So in the past, houston has always run into that rut game or that rut half where they just can't make shots, and that's been their undoing, and I think this team is much less susceptible to that. The problem they have is they're running the Duke. But you know, I think this probably is the best opportunity that Houston's had in recent years to go all the way through just because they shoot the ball, to go with that defense and rebound, yeah, and I feel like this year's Duke team is, you know, from start to finish.

Rocky: 16:45

I think they've been the most athletic. They got three or four guys that are probably going to go in the first round if they come out, and I think they probably will but I feel like they haven't seen. I think, coach, the ACC to me this year was down right. The SEC was the conference you know this year. So I think the ACC was extremely down conference you know this year. So I think the ACC was was extremely down. But I don't think Duke has seen the physicality that Houston's going to get a bring on Saturday night.

Coach Pags: 17:12

Yeah, I don't think many people see that. You know they they really like how the game's officiated is going to matter too a little bit, cause the team that plays like Houston, you can call a foul every time down the floor or you cannot call much of anything and it becomes really a physical game. I think if Houston turns the game, the more physical the game becomes. I think Duke can deal with that, but I think that favors a looser whistle. I think will favor Houston a little bit.

Coach Pags: 17:45

The other thing that favors Houston a little bit is this game is a little bit of the throwback we talked about. Houston's a very experienced team, probably the most experienced of the four teams, whereas Duke might be the least experienced of the four teams but the most talented. So you know, it's kind of at a different level it's what we talked about earlier where you know tournaments and days going by where you'd have the team with a little bit more experience against a team with a little bit more talent, sometimes experience enough to get you over the hump when you got really good players. That Houston does.

Rocky: 18:15

So, coach, how do you defend if you're Calvin Sampson? I mean, how do you defend a kid like Cooper Flagg, who can beat you inside, can beat you outside, he can beat you inside, he can beat you outside, he can beat you off the dribble. What do they have to do to contain him and let somebody else beat you?

Coach Pags: 18:28

Yeah, I would expect them to be super physical with him, not let him get to his spots comfortably. Again, how it's officiated is going to matter a little bit. I don't know if they may run two guys at him to make him give the ball up, but that's a dangerous thing against a team as talented as Duke. I mean, he's a willing passer and a good playmaker for other guys, but I think the biggest thing they'll do is really contest him physically for every inch on the floor.

Coach Pags: 18:58

I think they'll be really as physical as the law allows in that game.

Rocky: 19:04

Pegs, when you look at this Duke team, we mentioned obviously Cooper Flagg, the headline, and you got Canepo. You got a lot of guys on this team, as I'm talking about, and, coach, I think you hit it right on the spot. It depends on how they officiate this thing, but I think one thing that this Duke team has proved to me is they didn't need flag of the ACC tournament. Again, the ACC was down but you still got to get through and win games. You got to find ways to dig deep. So I mean Pags, this Duke team to me proved that, even if flag's not on his A game and let's be real, against Alabama he wasn't, but I think he still scored 16. He didn't get his 25-30,. But do they need the A Cooper flag or can they get by with a, with a b cooper flag?

Coach Pasiak: 19:46

well, I think they got enough guys. If any team can do it without their star player, it's due because they got enough guys around them. Um, but I do think it is certainly going to help to have them. You know, have the, the, the a star cooper flag. I think what coach was saying. He hit it right on the head.

Coach Pasiak: 20:02

I think the key for for houston is to make Cooper Flagg uncomfortable, because Cooper Flagg I mean, if they take him out of the game, he's the type of player that he's going to find other ways to get his teammates involved. He's not one of those players that if you shut him down, you know he might not score all the points but he'll find other ways to get his teammates involved. So I don't think, I don't think you can you can take him out of the game completely, but I do think you know it's. If you take him out of the game and he's not, he's the B, the B Cooper flag then Houston's going to have a heck of a chance to win this game. But if Cooper flag is on his A game, I think it's going to be a struggle for Houston. But I do think that Duke can still get by with this B game.

Rocky: 20:51

So this was the first time since 2008, and I had to look to see what teams were in and it was Kansas, ucla, memphis, north Carolina. I think that was the year Coach Kansas beat Memphis when John Calipari was there, when all four one seeds were in the final four. We've been talking a little bit about it over the last two weeks. You know America loves the Cinderella. There's no 12 seed. That's still in it. There's no 10 seed and I was trying to go back because we've talked a lot about college football over the years and I think this tournament, the 18 playoff you know we're debating on teams nine and 10 who didn't get into the 18 playoff, but I think, at the end of the day, when you look at this final four, I think the four best teams are left. I think these have been the teams coach I think you hit it on the spot earlier from start to finish have been the best all year. So here's the question I want to ask you guys.

Coach Pasiak: 21:54

Did the committee get this thing right or was it just luck how this thing played out? Well, I think there's always a little bit of luck involved. I mean right, I think. I mean you can see, I mean I think they seeded them right. I think they gave the one seeds to the top four teams in the country 's. That's what the committee tries to do every year. I mean, once in a while they there's a miss, um, but when you see the top, they see the top four teams in the country. They got it right with the seating, I think, um, but then it's got to play out. I mean, you know, because it's such a long tournament, um, you know anything can happen. You know anything can happen and, uh, it's, it's a long track. I mean it's a long trek to get to the Final Four, to get to the championship game. So all you need is a team to get hot at the right time or a team to get cold at the right time. So I do think they got it right. But I also think there's a little bit of luck involved sometimes with the draws and just what teams get hot in your bracket. But I do think they got the seeding right this year.

Rocky: 22:44

Coach. What do you think?

Coach Pags: 22:45

Yeah, I mean, I think especially the top Cs. I think it was pretty easy honestly for the committee. You know it's clearly the four best teams, I think you know, and one of the reasons people have been complaining a little bit about the tournament is like what makes the NCAA tournament kind of special is like it's designed to trip up the best teams. I guess the way I would put it it's a one-and-done format and especially each weekend you only got a one-day turnaround to prepare for your second game of the weekend.

Coach Pags: 23:22

So, in a sense, what creates March Madness magic, I guess, is the potential to trip up the best team. I think, if you're looking for versus, like the NBA playoffs, where it's a seven game series and it really identifies the best team and crowns them champion at the end of the day, I think the difference this year is the separation, you know, from the top of the bracket to the bottom of the bracket. You know that's why we saw power conferences teams and that's why, and um, I think I read something where the four teams in the finals this year there's only been six other teams total in the history of chempom with as high of efficiency ratings as these four teams this year. So the separation between those teams and and the rest of the pack is is a lot more than it typically would be.

Rocky: 24:08

Yeah, and I think you know again we've said this is, I think, the days of, like, the Valparaiso kids that are staying for four years and you know, by the time those kids are juniors and seniors, you know they can make a run in the NCAA tournament and really, when you look at this whole tournament, it's been chalk round one, round two all the way through to the final four. I know we talked a little bit about this last week, but do we think this is the norm now? Going forward with the NIL, the transfer portal, and how coaches now can come in and flip a roster and it's like the mid-majors now are just a stepping stone to the power four job, do you think going forward, the NCAA tournament coaches this is what we're going to see now a lot of chalk really feels that way.

Coach Pags: 24:49

You know, really, really, you know, the one thing that'll be interesting is this this settlement with the house case that's coming up, um, this spring, where the schools will have 20 and a half million to that they can pay directly to athletes, basically, um, that could be a really good thing for a conference like the Big East, because the power for most of that money is going to football. What doesn't go to football is going to basketball, and what doesn't go to football or basketball there'll be some crumbs left for the other sports. So I think that a conference like the Big East or a school like Gonzaga or St Mary's, like a traditional basketball power that doesn't have money invested in big-time football, if they choose to pour most of that money into basketball, that could help equalize the field. But that said, like you're still not going to get the NIL money at some of those schools, at the Villanovas or the St Johns that you get at Alabama or Michigan.

Coach Pags: 25:43

So the NIL is still going to be a factor, but I do think, as the money increases, we're going to see more and more of what we saw this year.

Coach Pasiak: 25:53

Yeah, I agree, I think you're going to start seeing the separation of the big boys versus the not-so-big boys. But I also think the one thing that is maybe a positive of this whole thing is you're going to see teams who can get better real quick, right, you're going to see a lot of teams who maybe this year are not very good. They go all in and they they get a bunch of money uh, nil money, like it's. Like I said, it's not a football school. They pour all that money into the program and they can be good the next year. So you know, I don't think there could be situations where, you know, one year you're down and out and the next year you got five new guys coming in as starters. I mean, we saw it this week with some.

Coach Pasiak: 26:31

You know, if you've been watching the comings and goings, I mean some teams. There was one team that we were talking about that they lost everybody. They lost all their players. Some guys graduated and then the other guys just transferred out. I mean even syracuse, locally, look, I mean they're, they're down to two guys now. Um, you know, and they're, they're basically starting over. I mean they got, they got a good freshman class coming in next year, but uh, or this year, we recall, but, um, again, it's a chance for you know, can they? Can they hit the transfer portal hard and bring in some guys to put, put something around them? Um, and they can be good next year, as soon as next year, if they get the right guys.

Rocky: 27:07

Coach, you make a good point you were mentioning. You know I want to take Buzz Williams for an example here, who just left Texas A&M now to go to Maryland. And Buzz has a history of staying at a school for three, four years and then bouncing. But the people we're talking today on sports radio with Texas A&M, the money all going basically to the football program. You know these basketball guys don't like that. They want to go somewhere that they can invest in the basketball program and you know I was saying last week like a school like Texas A&M in basketball.

Rocky: 27:39

I think if you were to ask the fans, the athletic department, and say, were people happy with the year A&M had? And they were competitive, they made a little bit of run right, I think they won one, a couple games, I think they got to the second weekend. That I think that's okay for those schools. But you think that's one of the reasons why you're seeing some of these coaches and I'm just using him as an example coach that he leaves there and goes to Maryland because of the football school and the money that goes into the football program.

Coach Pags: 28:06

I'm sure that plays into it. I mean, willard left Maryland because he wasn't happy with Maryland's commitment to basketball and what they were willing to invest. So you know, I think Maryland has been more of a basketball school like the football has not really competed at a national level, of a basketball school like that football has not really competed at a national level. So, you know, buzz, you know, maybe feels like he's got more of a more of an equal playing field with at Maryland in terms of where they prioritize basketball versus football. But, like I said, you know, willard just left. So and on the way out the door he was complaining about their support of basketball. You know, for a month before he left, complaining about their support of basketball, you know, for a month before he left, so you know and the money in the coaching contracts.

Coach Pags: 28:50

That drives a lot of it too. So but I think you know coaches are really going to look at that going forward, how schools are going to spend their money when this especially when it's 20 and a half million that the schools have direct control over comes into play.

Coach Pasiak: 29:07

You're hearing grumblings already with Nate Ota at Alabama. I mean, obviously Alabama is a football school right, but you've been hearing some grumblings about whether or not he's happy there. I don't know if it's just because he's trying to get a bigger contract out of Alabama or obviously we know Alabama all the money is football right, but he went there and he built a great program in Alabama, so you'd think that he would want to be there long-term to make that. You know it's never going to be a basketball school, but he's got a heck of a basketball team there. But you're starting to hear some grumblings about whether he wants to stay there or head elsewhere.

Rocky: 29:40

So let me ask you guys this question. There's been some debate too this week on who the player of the year is, and right now it's Cooper Flagg and the broom kid from Auburn, jeff Goodman, was getting kind of hammered on radio because he was saying co-players of the year with both of them and some of the guys were saying Cooper Flagg by far has been the best player all year. And I was kind of going back to the Heisman Trophy thing and I thought Travis Hunter should have won it because I said he was the best player in the country.

Rocky: 30:06

He might not have been the best receiver. You can argue whatever you want to how you want to debate it, but I say, if you take somebody off the team, how would they be? If you take the genti kid off of Boise State, I'm not sure how good Boise State would have been. You take, you know, hunter off of Colorado. I'm not, but it's like you take Flagg off of Duke. They still got through to the ACC. I still would say Cooper Flagg is the best player in the country from a talent standpoint. Would you guys agree, coach? Do you think he gets the award at the end of the year?

Coach Pags: 30:34

I mean, I think he should. I think he's the best player and he's going to be the number one pick in the NBA draft To me. As good as Bruin has been and some other guys have been, I think Flagg is clear-cut number one player in the country.

Coach Pasiak: 30:52

I agree, I think he's the best player in the country, but no doubt and I think he gets it hands down I think the Broome kid is a close second, but I don't think he's done enough like Flagg has done. I mean, yes, duke's got other guys there, but it's been all about Cooper Flagg all year.

Rocky: 31:11

Have you guys been watching any of the girls' games? You guys got a favorite for the women's game Coach. Who do you like?

Coach Pags: 31:19

Haven't watched a ton of the girls' tournament at all. Can't bet against UConn though. You know Oriana in that situation and you know it's been close to chalk in that tournament too, which is no surprise. On the women's side, you know the women tend to be closer to chalk because the gap between the best and the worst teams is 100 times what it is in men's basketball. But you know I go with UConn there.

Rocky: 31:42

So Scott Van Pelt last night I think it was last night, yeah, because the girls played last night After the Connecticut game. They were interviewing Gino Auriemma on ESPN and Van Pelt said you know, coach, you're going to go, you know, for the underdog UConn team. And Auriemma was like the what he goes. I don't think I've been called an underdog in 20-something years. And again, of course, paige Becker. I love Paige. I'm hoping that she wins this thing.

Rocky: 32:12

But the girls' games have all been great games. I mean it's been chalk. I mean you've got South Carolina on one side against Texas, who's been good all year. You've got Geno, the only two seed to get through, which you know I see two seed. You're like they're really not a two seed, they're really a one seed. They kind of caught a break with Juju Watkins going down for USC because people wanted to see Paige against Juju. I'm with you, coach. I love Gino, I love Paige. I'm hoping Connecticut can get it done. Here's a crazy stat. As they said, if Paige Beckers doesn't win the national championship, she'll be one of the only all-time greats at Connecticut to go to four final fours and never win a national championship, which I think is crazy, that is crazy.

Rocky: 32:53

Who do you like Pegs?

Coach Pasiak: 32:54

I like UConn too. I mean I was sad to see Juju get hurt. I was watching that game a little bit. I watched that game a little bit. I watched a little bit of the UConn game and then I was watching TCU with Haley. I like Haley Van Lith, I think she's a great player and I was watching her a little bit but bit. But I, I that's besides those teams. I don't really know uh much about the other ones, but I I can't, I can't go against genio ariana too. He's just so dominant. Um, but I think other schools, I mean other schools have finally caught up to him. I mean, for the three years it was, it was you kind of nobody else. Um, I I think you've seen uh the other teams catch up to to them, um, but I think they're. It's going to be hard to beat him in this tournament, I think, with these last four teams remaining.

Rocky: 33:37

Coach real fast. I want to go back to Tom Izzo is another one of my favorite coaches to watch. Coach you always see the emotions on his sleeves in the press conferences with the kids. I was pulling for him really to beat Auburn. I know him and Bruce Pearl are good friends but some people think that maybe Izzo's got one or two years left. What's your thoughts on coach Izzo?

Coach Pags: 34:03

I don't know, just as an observer. I kind of see him as being more out of the kind of from the world of I don't know Krzyzewski, williams, boeheim, laranega, bennett, those kind of guys. I see him as being more that mold of a coach which would tell me he probably doesn't have a whole lot longer to go, because I don't know what his thoughts are on the current landscape.

Coach Pags: 34:33

I think that's what's driven most of those guys out of coaching is like the you know the change in the game with the portal and the NIL and the year to year and everything versus. I think guys like Patino and Calipari maybe, are wired to navigate that space a little more. So you know, Izzo comes across as, like you know, being kind of young at heart and still having good energy, but it wouldn't shock me to see him go the way like. He reminds me a little bit of Saban in the football world and you know Saban like it felt like he had a lot of, you know, a lot of gas still in the tank, but he just wasn't, didn't like where college sports was headed, the landscape and and whatnot, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Izzo go down that path yeah, I've seen some stuff on Izzo lately and basically what I've, what I've been hearing, is that obviously we know that he's old school, he does and he does it his way and he he's not willing.

Coach Pasiak: 35:29

What I've been hearing is that he's not really willing to to go down this landscape of the new uh, the new basketball with nil and everything. He's kind of doing it, doing it the same way. He's always done it. From what I've been hearing, um, and I think if he keeps doing that, I don't know how long he's gonna be able to last to keep doing that. I think that's it. I think he's gonna want to keep doing it that way.

Coach Pasiak: 35:48

I don't see him really changing into this new, new way. Um, I think he's kind of stuck in his old ways and he's going to stick to that. But eventually I think it's going to run out where he's not going to be able to compete. I mean, as long as he's still doing well and he's in Elite Eights, I think they'll keep him as long as he wants to stay. But I don't see him if he doesn't change. I don't see him ever breaking into a Final Four, winning an international title again if he continues to not get into the whole NAL and really dive in like everybody else has.

Rocky: 36:21

Yeah, and something was different this year through the NCAA tournament, when you see the emotions with Izzo on the floor, with his guy I mean he's always like that anyways. But I thought there was something different this year, even in some of his press conferences when they were asking him about the portal and you know when it opens and you know just some of his responses. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes one more year and kind of goes off. I think he really wanted a shot to get to one more Final Four. I think he sees that window Coach. I think it was a good reference to say Nick Saban, because I would probably say the same thing.

Rocky: 36:53

But I just wanted to see what your guys' thoughts were on Izzo. So, all right, well, let's pick these two games, let's see who you guys like. And I'm going to tell you I'm going to stick with my picks for the national championship. But I'm really torn with the second game here. But we'll start with the first game. The 6-0-9 tip. Right now, florida is minus two and a half to Auburn Pags. I'll start with you on this one. Who do you like?

Coach Pasiak: 37:19

I like Florida in this game. I think they have too much. I mean I would love. To me Auburn is like you know we talk about there's no Cinderella. To me Auburn is the Cinderella. I mean there's no Cinderella left in this tournament. But to me Auburn is that Cinderella because they kind of play like their coach. I mean he's fiery, the team is fiery, and if anybody can pull it off, I think they can do it. But I just think it's going to be a close game. But I think towards the end Florida is going to pull away. So I like Florida in this game.

Rocky: 37:54

Coach. What do you like?

Coach Pags: 37:55

Yeah, I like Florida too. I think you know Auburn, I think has the puncher's chance, especially if Broome does his best, danny Manning, and puts the team on his back, you know. But I think Florida's depth in the end, you know I have to lean towards them. Wouldn't shock me if Auburn won. But I think Florida, you know Florida, all odds are that they come through that game.

Rocky: 38:17

Well, I had Florida from day one in the national championships. I'm going to stick with Florida, but, coach, I'm with you. I wouldn't be surprised. I just think too many people are counting Auburn out of this game and not giving them a chance to win this game, and I think that's what Bruce Pearl likes. I think Pearl likes being the underdog in this game and I think that's what Bruce Pearl likes. I think Pearl likes being the underdog in this game.

Rocky: 38:36

And Florida's been on the ropes. But again, a kid like Walter Clayton Jr, who's been fantastic down the stretch, I think this Florida team's been tested. I think they're the deeper team. We'll see how healthy Broom is If he can stay healthy, stay on the floor. But I'm with you guys. I'm going to take Florida and the gambling guy that I am. I'm going to take Florida and the gambling guy that I am. I'm going to take Florida laying the two and a half in that game. This is the game I'm really torn on because I have Duke and Florida playing for the national championship in my bracket. But I am really torn on this game because I think Houston's got a really good shot to beat Duke. Coach, I'll start with you. Who do you like?

Coach Pags: 39:11

I got Duke here. You know. Know, when in doubt, go with the best player. You know, I'd be shocked if I wouldn't be shocked like I. I think duke's the better team and, um, you know we talked about houston shooting it well. I mean, I think they have to shoot it well, but I think duke makes you not shoot it well, um, you know. So I, I, and at the end of the day, like I said, you know, if you're in doubt, go with the best player pegs you want duke.

Coach Pasiak: 39:39

Yeah, I agree, I I don't think. I don't think this game is going to be as close as as some maybe some people are saying. Um, it's weird, you know, like coach said, you know it would shock me, but it wouldn't shock me. I think houston can definitely pull it off, um it, but it would shock me, but, but it also wouldn't shock me. But I think Duke is just too powerful. They got too much. So I don't think it's going to be as close as a lot of people are maybe saying. With this game I think Duke wins easily.

Rocky: 40:05

So I'm not a Duke guy, but when these brackets came out, I didn't even look at the brackets. Coach, I'm with you because I said Duke has the best player in the country, so I literally put Duke winning it all from day one, without even seeing these brackets. I just think that even Houston, as tough as they are, I think Houston could shut somebody down. Maybe they hold flag to 15 points or so, but I think Duke's got too many weapons that they'll throw at Houston and I really think that Duke's switching all the ball screens and the athleticism that they possess. I don't think Houston has seen a team like Duke all year, but I also don't think Duke has seen a team as physical, as we talked about earlier, that they're going to see pegs.

Rocky: 40:46

I don't think Duke runs away with this game. I think this is like a one-two possession game with a minute to go, and what coach is going to do there? Make the adjustments late in this game. I think if Houston keeps this thing close, this might be Calvin Sampson's best team that he's had since taking over at Houston. And coach, you hit it on the spot earlier this is the best shooting team he's had to go along with the best defensive team that he's had. So I think it's going to be closer. I'm going to stay my pick. I like Duke to march on and play Monday night. So we all got Duke and Florida guys. So I might as well ask you guys who's cutting the nuts down? Pags, I'll start with you this time.

Coach Pasiak: 41:24

That's tough, you know. I have. I had Florida in all my brackets winning it. I had Florida and Duke, but now I'm starting to. If I can change my bracket, I would. I would pick Duke over Florida, but what a battle that's going to be. I have no idea who to pick in that. Really, I think both teams are so well matched, they're both so big and they both have. They're both loaded with talent. So when they match up, I mean I think it'll be a phenomenal game, maybe come down to last possession. But my heart says Duke. But again, I think game Maybe come down to last possession.

Rocky: 41:59

My heart says Duke but again I think it could be a toss-up. I don't know. I just had to look at my Yahoo Fantasy bracket to see what I predicted the score. So I'll give you mine. In a second Coach, you've got to be riding Cooper Flag in the Blue Devils, right.

Coach Pags: 42:10

You're riding one of them, yep, go with the best player. I agree I got him too.

Rocky: 42:15

I had an 86-82 Duke in the final game and you know I don't know Again, I'm not a huge Duke guy. But you know I got to give some credit to John Shire because filling in for Coach K, filling in for any of these legends, hasn't really worked out well really in any sport but Hasn't really worked out well really in any sport. But, man, coach, you've got to tip your hat to John Shire and the job that he's been doing, continuing to recruit at a high level.

Coach Pags: 42:40

Yeah, I mean he has really, like you said, he's bucked the trend a little bit, because usually you know you want to be the guy who follows, the guy who follows the legend.

Coach Pags: 42:49

Usually the guy that comes right after the legend. It's tough sledding because people are, you know, people are expecting so much of you. You know the other thing with Shire, like he's the only guy of the four that doesn't have baggage, you know, it's true, you know, it's really. I find it really fascinating how Samson and Pearl have kind of rehabilitated their careers and their images after some of the trouble they got into with the NCAA years ago. And then, you know, golden had a little bit of off-court issue recently too. But Shire has been, you know he's proven to be, like you know, the ideal successor to Kay, at least so far.

Rocky: 43:28

Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like all those coaches Coach you mentioned have all had second and third chances, and here they are, some in the final four and some on to Chris Beard, another one who? And then what's his name? The coach that's? I'm drawing a blank here. That's going to Texas, to the left, xavier. Oh, you guys got to give me a name I'm drawing a blank here.

Rocky: 43:50

Yes, Sean Miller? Yep, he was another guy that got himself in a little bit of trouble, and here he comes out again smelling like a rose, a big payday going to Texas. So these guys seem to find ways to get away with things, right, coach?

Coach Pasiak: 44:02

People forget quickly, right Once you start winning again. People forget the past.

Coach Pags: 44:07

Well, you know, it's like, as long as your talent or your production exceeds your indiscretion, you've always got a job right, whether you're a coach or an athlete.

Rocky: 44:17

Yeah very true, very true. Well, listen guys, I appreciate it. I appreciate you guys talking some hoops. We're all riding with Duke. We'll see how it pans out, but I think the Duke-Houston game I think to me the winner of that game, I think wins it all. But we'll see what happens. But, coach, listen, I appreciate you taking the time always and I love talking on on sports watch and we'll do it again soon.

Coach Pags: 44:39

Sounds great. Always great to talk to you guys.

Rocky: 44:41

Awesome. Thanks, coach. Pags I'll ask you to see what's going on the weekend for sports watch, but good to have you on buddy.

Coach Pasiak: 44:48

Yeah, always appreciate. It, All right guys have a good week.

Rocky: 44:51

Enjoy the weekend. So that was great. I want to thank Coach Paggs and Coach Pajak for coming on to talk some Final Four with me here tonight. On the Rock Pile Some big news coming up. Stay tuned. Over the next week or so I'll introduce the guest for the Beyond the Game podcast, which is going to be fantastic. It's something different that I haven't done, so stay tuned for that. Have a great weekend. Watching some college basketball Again should be two really good games on Saturday night. So, on behalf of the Rockpile here tonight, enjoy the weekend everybody. We'll see you again soon.