Rocky: 0:44

Thank you Good evening. Welcome to the Rock Pile here tonight. Happy to be back behind the mic with another episode of the Beyond the Game podcast tonight with Carl Darden. We'll chat with him in just a little bit. He's a graduate of the US Naval Academy. He's a 20-year veteran former helicopter pilot and a chronic Navy sports fan. We're going to talk about his podcast, the Navy sports nation, which is the official site for all Navy sports. So we'll talk to him in a little bit.

Rocky: 1:31

If you're just tuning in and make sure to give me a subscribe on YouTube, follow me on Facebook, youtube, linkedin, twitter, wherever you're following me on social media. If you have any questions for the show tonight, just put them in the comment box. I'll try to pull over as many as I can, excited to bring back the 46 Power Podcast. We'll be talking nothing but college football, nfl football, high school football and all football. I'll debut that episode More than likely I'll let you know this week. We're looking at next Monday night as well, so a lot going on. The Mohawk Valley Sports Watch will be back on the weekend with Coach Medesis, coach Pags and the Statman. So a lot going on here on the Rock Pile.

Rocky: 2:09

So, without further ado, let's bring on Carl. Let me just pull him up here. Let me just fix you, carl, let me get my screens up here. Let me move you here and there you are. How are you, my friend? All right, good, good are. How are you, my friend? Good, good. Rocky, how are you doing? I'm doing good. I'm really excited for this show and I appreciate you working with me on the schedule. I know we were supposed to go last week, so I appreciate you working with me to get this thing going here tonight.

Karl: 2:36

No, that's not a problem. Happy to do it.

Rocky: 2:39

So, carl, let's talk a little bit about your background. First, as I was just saying, a 20-year veteran of the US Naval Academy, former helicopter pilot, chronic Navy sports fan. And then I want to get into how you started the Navy sports podcast. Give us a little intro on yourself.

Karl: 2:55

Okay, thanks. Yeah, I graduated from Navy with a class of 84. Ended up basically getting exposed to the Naval Academy when I was a freshman in high school and kind of followed the route to get admitted. So everything worked out there, went to flight school. As you mentioned, I was a helicopter pilot and I was on active duty for nine years and flew a couple of different platforms. The last two and a half years was the most fun, probably because I was an instructor down in Pensacola, florida, and teaching the students to fly the H-57 Jet Ranger. They phased that out a little while ago I'd say about 10 years ago and they got a newer model now. But it was a really, really good time. It was probably the most fun I've ever had in the Navy.

Karl: 3:39

And then, after nine years, I decided to dip my toe into the corporate world. I did stay in the reserves, though, so I did the 11 years in the reserves for the total of 20. I didn't fly in the reserves, I was mostly attached to a unit that was working with their traffic controllers off different MFib ships and stuff like that, but still a really good time. Spent 19 years with Johnson Johnson and finished that time up in 2016. And I was doing an energy consulting business for a little while and then I just basically am retired now. I retired, semi-retired about four years ago, fully retired, basically two years ago.

Karl: 4:19

So I ended up starting this podcast about four years ago and it was off the heels of the blog that I began in 2020 during COVID. The blog was called Navy Sports Nation and then the podcast just seemed to be a natural follow on from that. We did it. A year later it's called Navy Sports Central, which is the official podcast of the Navy Sports Nation.

Karl: 4:43

I know it's really not good marketing to use two different names for a podcast and a blog, but what the heck? I don't claim to be a marketing expert or anything like that, but anyway. So, yeah, I've been doing it for four years and just really a lot of fun. It's strictly a hobby. I don't do it for money or anything like that. I just love talking about the Naval Academy athletes, not just in the revenue producing sports like football and basketball, but there are some incredible athletes on these sports that just kind of fly below the radar and I like to highlight those guys and those girls as well, and those young men and women. Might you know, at any time I can. So that's what I do for fun and, like I said, four years and still going strong.

Rocky: 5:26

So when I was in high school, which was many, many, many years ago, I was an option quarterback and, uh, my mom and dad I would say more of my mom than my father I was recruited by Navy, I was recruited by air force, I was recruited by army because, of course, the option quarterback.

Rocky: 5:41

My mom threw a lot of those letters out because my mom didn't want me to go into service, but when I look back now at my high school career, I would have been the perfect fit to go play at any of the academy schools, just because of, obviously, the option game now today. But it seems like you know, nowadays when you look at the NIL and you look at recruiting, it's so much different, right, because when you sign up and you go play at one of these academies and we can focus on Navy here is when you graduate, right, you have to go into the service, right? That's part of the commitment.

Karl: 6:17

Yes, yes, that is, and sometimes it varies a little bit, you know, depending on what administration is in. They might make some allowances if somebody gets drafted or something like that. Like, for instance, this year we had a defensive back named Rayon Lane who was a terrific safety and he's also a special teams player and he was I can't remember if he got, I think he did get drafted. Either that or he's an undrafted free agent signed by, I believe, the Jacksonville Jaguars, and I think they're trying to work something out with him where they're saying hey, look, go ahead and take your shot. If you make it, we'll just defer your service time and you can do it later.

Karl: 6:54

Or if it doesn't work out, you can just go right back into the Marine Corps or the Navy. Most of the football players tend to go Marine Corps and Ray may have done that, he might be Navy, I don't know. But yeah, it really kind of depends. But you're right, it typically it's at least a two-year commitment. Even even way back when David Robinson graduated and he was drafted by the San Antonio Spurs, he he did two years as a civil in the civil engineering corps before he, before they released him to play NBA ball full-time.

Rocky: 7:23

So and I know you talk about some of the non. You know the football, basketball sports. There's a lot of good sports at Navy. What have been some of the fun sports and non-football related in basketball that you've covered and you've talked about?

Karl: 7:37

Well, I tell you what and these are the ones that tend to do a little bit better on my podcast, because you don't hear from them, you don't hear about them all that much. So what ends up happening is, especially if I have a guest on right, we'll do the podcast and everything and they'll send it out to their folks. And next thing, you know, like the rowing is a great example, all right, I've got a couple of classmates who, when we were seniors, they were on the heavyweight rowing team that won the national championship and I interviewed them basically it was back in January, and one of them was the team captain and the other guy occupied the stroke seat, which is like the seat that establishes the pace for the entire boat we had. We must've talked for an hour and 40 minutes, right, and when that one hit, you know, when I released that one, they sent it out to all their rowing friends and there's this really tight rowing community and it just, you know, kind of blew up. So I enjoy talking about rowing. I got a rowing machine myself and I always, you know, ask people for tips and stuff on, you know, different workouts and everything. So rowing is one, women's lacrosse is another one and that was one that I've had the same One of my guests that I like to bring back.

Karl: 8:51

She played at Navy when it was still a club sport. Now it was a national level club sport because they won a couple of national championships on that stage, but it didn't become a varsity sport at Navy until 2007. But she is really, really knowledgeable. In fact, she's a high school lacrosse coach, so whenever something big happens with women's lacrosse, I always invite her on.

Karl: 9:15

In fact, my very last podcast I was counting down the top 10 most memorable moments in Navy sports for this sports season and the number one moment I selected was when Navy women's lacrosse beat Loyola to qualify for the NCAA tournament. Because Loyola is a monster program in women's lacrosse in the Patriot League and they've been in the league basically 11 years and they have not lost a single regular season conference game ever. They're 93 and 0 and the only team that's beaten them during that whole time they've been in the league has been navy, but it's always been in the patriot league tournament or in the ncaa tournament. So this year they beat them in overtime to qualify. Loyola also made it to the tournament as well, just as an at-large, but it was quite an exciting game. It it was televised on CBS Sports Network and it was just fantastic.

Karl: 10:07

So yeah, rowing, women's lacrosse, some of the others I've done, you know, men's and women's swimming is another one I'd like to highlight as much as I can. The women's tennis program is big. Let's see what are some of the other. Those are probably the big ones. I've talked about the rifle team as well. That's actually a co-ed varsity sport and, um, you know a few others, but yeah, those, those ones that, uh, that fly below the radar, tend to be pretty popular.

Rocky: 10:35

Yeah, I can relate to that because I mean I I cover the big sports, I cover football, basketball and baseball, but locally, I've covered field hockey, I've covered soccer, I've covered some of the, I've covered bowling and some other sports as well. Lacrosse, I think, has gotten bigger and bigger. I'm close to Syracuse, so Syracuse lacrosse is really big this way. And I know Navy the men's have a fantastic lacrosse team too. You just kind of touched on this with some of the sports that you've highlighted. Has there been a game, a big game that you've covered with Navy that stands out to you in any of the podcasts that you've done?

Karl: 11:11

Well, certainly this last one, with the women's team beating Loyola, was huge, and I think that the reason that was so big again, I already spoke to Loyola's record, but I think what really added to the storyline was the last couple of times that Navy has played Loyola. In last year's Patriot League Championship game they lost in overtime. It was just such a tough defeat because they were battling with them just all the way down to the end. The score was tight at the end of regulation and then Loyola was know, put one pass, a goalie and that was it. And then in the regular season this year they played them in Annapolis. So I'm thinking, okay, this is, this is where I think they can take them down during the regular season. And they lost in double overtime. It was. It was just so painful. So this championship game that was just played, you know, a couple of months ago, that put a really huge spotlight on it and I think that, at least in recent memory, if you're talking about the sports that aren't the real huge ones in terms of generating the money, that was probably the biggest one.

Karl: 12:22

Talking about some other sports like, say, on the men's side, probably wrestling is one that they took down Lehigh's got a really big program in the league and they beat Lehigh. And this is when Navy's wrestling coach. It was just like in his first year. As a matter of fact, this guy's name is Kerry Collat. Just a monster career in college and he wrestled at. He ended up graduating from a small school in pennsylvania, uh, but this guy is the perfect coach for for navy wrestling and he's just got this attitude that, um, you know you don't need all the fancy facilities and all that kind of stuff. He actually did. He had a podcast.

Karl: 13:02

It would have pretty big following of his own and, uh, he, uh, he did this piece one time when, when he was, uh, still wrestling, they went down to Cuba to wrestle their guys and Cuba has really, really good wrestling program and you look in their gyms and it looks like you know one of these boxing gyms back from like the 1950s. You know rust on all the weights. You know mats that have been around forever 1950s. You know rust on all the weights, you know mats that have been around forever, but these guys are just first grade wrestlers and that you know, his point being that, look, facilities are great, but what it comes down to is a guy on the mat, you know, and that's how he trains his wrestlers, that's how that's a culture he's established at Navy and so, yeah, when they beat Lehigh and not just beat him they beat him pretty handily. His first year as coach, that was a really big deal.

Rocky: 13:51

Carl, one of the things everybody always talks about, and even some of the announcers on TV or anytime you listen and watch any of the academy schools. They talk about the athlete itself and the difference between an athlete at the academy and again we can focus on Navy here or, let's say, an athlete out of Michigan or Ohio State, and they always talk about you don't ever want to play at academy school because of the toughness. They're smart, they're disciplined, they don't make a lot of mistakes. Talk to us about some of the difference between an academy athlete, maybe, versus some of those other big power five schools.

Karl: 14:23

Yeah, that's a good point, and I think that when, when you think about the, the type of recruit that comes in, uh, this is all about spotting potential, right, because I mean, navy is never going to get a five-star athlete, they're probably never going to get a four-star athlete. They can get a three-star athlete and develop them to a four probably. It's happened before and I'll cite a couple of examples but yeah, they're looking for that strong two-star, really good three-star athlete. That's just got you know. First of all, they got to be able to understand what the mission of the academy is is basically to train Naval and Marine Corps officers. Right, and certainly the answer that I hear from most of the football players when they're interviewed and say, hey, well, why did you come to Navy? And they say, well, you know, I wanted to serve my country but I still wanted to play competitive Division I football. That is the difference. I mean the other folks, you know more power to them, you know their goal is to play Division I football and you know more than you know, if possible, get to the NFL, when that's not really what's on the Naval Academy athletes' mind. They just want to play good, competitive football and they'll do whatever it takes to get on the field and I've said this before to other folks I've talked to.

Karl: 15:38

When they go to the practices and you know, playing the games and stuff like that, that's the easiest thing they do all week, right, because of all their other commitments. I mean they have no joke. 20, I would say minimum 17 to 18 credit hours per semester and junior year forget it, it's probably going to be closer to 20. And you have professional commitments that you have besides that lectures to go to at night. When I was there they gave exams at night. Not sure if they do that anymore, but let's just say you're being pulled from a bunch of different directions and the time that they get on the practice field is probably like their sanctuary and they go and you know they have their 100% focus on what they're doing when they're on the field. They have to be, otherwise, you know, things start going sideways. But that's probably the main difference. These are just really strong student athletes that want to compete versus other recruits that go to colleges and so forth. That may or may not finish and that's the choice that they make, but at the Naval Academy they have no choice but to finish. You know, finish in four years, or that's basically it. And the nice thing is the coaching staff understands what the mission is. They understand the type of athlete they're looking for. A lot of coaches love coaching here because it is a developmental program.

Karl: 17:04

It's no, it's not fishing people out of the transfer portal and, you know, hoping that you get the right mix to to make a run at a national championship. I mean no disrespect to Ohio state, but, um, you know they had a huge NIL budget and I will say that the one, the one guy that they had on their roster as a kid named Denzel Burke, who actually, when he was in grade school, went to school with my son and so we've been following him ever since he got there. But he was a high school recruit, started his freshman year, played all the way through, stayed with Ohio State the whole time, didn't mess with the portal, none of that stuff. But he's an exception to the rule. These days it's just not that way and I think when people come to coach at Navy or when they come to play at Navy, that's one distraction that is not present, and I guess it isn't away from a player standpoint, but certainly not from the coaches. I mean, they understand that when they recruit a player they're there to try and develop them as best as they can and ultimately we've had some players we had our shared players go into the transfer portal, but none of the ones that I wouldn't say there's.

Karl: 18:14

There's one that did Chad Hodges. He, he went into the transfer port, is a linebacker and he ended up playing a TCU and did end up playing in the national championship game when they got waxed by a who is it? Was it Georgia that beat TCU that badly that year? I can't remember. Yeah, it was pretty bad, yeah, but Chad Hodges was about the only guy that I recall that went to the transfer portal from Navy and still got appreciable playing time. In fact he started, but most of the others they just kind of disappear and you just never see them again. So, uh, I think that players that come to navy know that if they want to play division one football, their best bet is to stick with the program.

Rocky: 18:51

So yeah, it's funny you bring up duns albert because in my family we're, so we're big 10 family here. My wife and I met in columbus, ohio, so she drank. She drank the gatorade and is a big timetime Ohio State fan. I am a Michigan fan. I didn't think that was allowed.

Rocky: 19:10

It's a house divided, for sure. We got the flag and everything, but we don't talk to each other much in the fall. She had bragging rights this year because they won the national championship and I can say we beat you the last four years and we won it the year before. So we got that Ohio State-Michigan Michigan ties here. But the other thing that always comes up and I always find it fascinating too and and you kind of lived it and I'm sure you've talked to some of the athletes when you go to NAV you got to go to class but that schedule and that routine from what the schedule looks like in the morning until late at night, and then you got to factor in practice. Like you said, practice is probably the easiest thing that they'll do the entire day, but can you outline maybe what a typical day looks like for an athlete?

Karl: 19:52

Yeah, I mean, it's the way the day is pretty much set up. You wake up and sometimes, depending on the time of year, they might have some workout to do even before they go to class. Right, it might be just a quick weight training workout or something like that. But you go down, you eat breakfast. Well, you have formation, you eat breakfast and then you have four classes. You know four class periods before lunch just one, two, three, four. They may not have a class every single period, but I would say at least three, if not all four. And then you come back, you have lunch at noon. They typically eat with their team at noontime and then they finish up with the afternoon classes, which is usually. You know two more class periods and then you know they go to the practice. They finish up that and they eat dinner with their team. And then then the study hours. Like you know, basically three hours. You know 8 to 11 o'clock and then after that, if they want to keep studying, I guess they can.

Karl: 20:51

But people I mean the mids take it from me really value their sleep. I mean I could fall asleep at any time in any position when I was there. I did not need a rack. I could just fall down and you know, just sleep with that is sitting down in a chair. Some people just couldn't even tell that I was asleep until they came to look, looking real close, and saw that my eyes were closed. You know so. But yeah, that's a typical day. It just every day, every minute is really accounted for. There's really not a whole lot of time, especially if you're a freshman. There's not a whole lot of time to sit back and just kind of kick back or anything like that. But yeah, that's basically. And then you know they don't have Saturday classes anymore, but they used to. You'd have Saturday classes just until noon and it would be like one, maybe two, but they don't have that anymore. But yeah, it's pretty jammed up.

Rocky: 21:51

There's not a whole lot of free time, given the number of credit hours they have to take, and that's why things are pretty much on the go the whole time. What's it like for you to go back? I don't know if you get to any of the sporting events not just football, but it could be any of the sporting events at Navy. What's it like for you, as a Navy graduate, to go back and still be part?

Karl: 22:05

of it. I love it. I try to get back up in Phoenix, by the way, and I try to get back every, you know, say, 18 months or so, and that is sometimes for the express purposes of seeing a game. Like um. A year ago, april, I went, uh because, uh, I just caught a weekend where there's a lot happening Army was playing Navy and women's lacrosse at home. The Navy rugby team, which, by the way, won a national championship a couple of years ago they were playing in their first round of their playoff game. So I wanted to see that.

Karl: 22:39

So my wife and I took the trip back and we went to the rugby game, we went to lacrosse game and it is great. I will tell you that the lacrosse game was amazing because there's just thousands of people in the stands, which was a really something for women's lacrosse. I mean, you can, that sport is really taking hold in the East coast, uh, on the East coast, and I just really enjoyed the atmosphere. And to me, it's just really cool to see a lot of you know, so much support for some of these sports that, like I said, typically don't get a lot of airtime.

Karl: 23:10

You know, all the time when I went back for my reunion back in October. I didn't get a chance to make it, but one of my buddies actually went to the cross-country meet because they're competing against Army in cross-country that very same weekend. So he was able to tell me about that competing against Army and cross country that very same weekend so he was able to tell me about that. But that whole environment, I think, is just something special, and especially being a graduate and being a part of that. I was not a varsity athlete when I was in school I was too busy trying to. I made a business decision to make sure I could graduate. But it was great when I was there as a mid. It's even better now, especially when you see sports like football kind of rebounding a little bit after several flat years. Just the level of enthusiasm and the support is pretty exciting, not just within the academy itself but also the city of Annapolis.

Rocky: 24:01

Well, I was just going to say. A lot of people have told me that you know, on Saturdays, a nice fall day there me that, uh, you know, on on saturday is a nice fall day. There's nothing better than that campus. How special is that campus?

Karl: 24:09

it's something else. The fall and, and, uh, the october is probably the best time to visit there because you got nice crisp weather. Uh, it's just just fabulous. I mean just sunshine everywhere, the leaves are turning and, just like I said, the level of excitement.

Karl: 24:26

This this past October, with my reunion, we were playing with Charlotte. You know Charlotte's not the best team in the American Conference, but we played them the year before and just barely squeaked by. It was mostly defensive win, so we didn't really know what to expect, but the atmosphere was just incredible and everybody was super excited about it. The weather was perfect and I was actually doing my podcast, kind of like an on the scene sort of thing, just interviewing different classmates and stuff, asking them some of their favorite moments in navy sports. And, uh, you know, we blinked and before you knew it, the scores like 21 to nothing. You know just a lot of really exciting offensive displays there and we had one guy, deshaun Peel. He had two pick sixes and you know one of them, I think, actually finished off the scoring and it went for like 84 yards or something like that. So, yeah, pretty pretty exciting stuff.

Rocky: 25:20

I know a lot of teams and I have a lot of buddies that are coaches in college football big-time college football that have played against Navy and a lot of them say it's so hard in practice to simulate what that triple option really looks like. And it's like you get into a game and I'll never forget this. I was living in Columbus. Navy took Ohio State to the wire late in the fourth quarter. I think Ohio State scored late in that game and Navy had a chance and I think it was an incomplete pass at the end of the game. But everybody was like that was one of the toughest games Ohio State played all year. And they all say the same thing when you see Navy or you see Army or you see Air Force on the schedule, you better be ready to strap it up because it's going to be a full four-quarter game. It's so hard to simulate that triple option in practice.

Karl: 26:03

You're right, it's tough to simulate that speed. That's the trickiest part. I know the game that you're talking about, because Navy had scored to close to two points and they were going for a two-point conversion and it was intercepted and it was run back. Ohio State ended up winning by four. I can't remember what year it was, but it was when Kenan reynolds was, I believe, a junior. If it was a junior, yeah, he was. Yeah, I mean, he was something else.

Karl: 26:32

And and since then, uh, you know, the triple option basically is still uh a part of navy's base offensive package. But about two years ago well, actually it was it was a year ago that uh navy hired a new offensive coordinator, um, and he came in and he brought in his name is a uh coach chronic, and he brought in the uh the hybrid wing t is what they call it um, and it was kind of a. The wing t is a very, very old offense, uh, but he made so many changes he grew up with it. But he made so many changes he grew up with it and he made so many different changes and modifications that kind of brought it into the 21st century, so to speak, where it incorporates a lot more passing. If you go back and look at the Army-Navy game, you'd be surprised at how much Navy threw the ball and it was really quite something when you saw Coach Kwonick's game plan and everything. But it's still an option, right. I mean, you still have to basically make your reads and so forth, and the idea of an option is just to get on the unbalanced side of the field and make that defensive player make a decision and once that decision is made, you, you need to have one way to go. That they haven't accounted for and it was, uh, just a masterful game plan.

Karl: 27:49

That coach chronic called against army and you know, pretty much the whole year went like that. There's only one, one game where actually two games where we were truly embarrassed, and that was against notre dame and against tulane. Notre dame, we just maybe just just wound up in quicksand and couldn't get themselves out. And then Tulane I think what happened was, well, our starting quarterback. He got knocked out of the game with some back spasms and the kid that backed him up just didn't have the same chemistry and everything, and it was a tough game.

Karl: 28:21

But they finished 10-3 on the year, which a great win over army, which is a considered an upset because army did win the conference and I still I still have that game on, I still have that game recorded on my dvr and uh, uh. And then they won their bowl game against oklahoma, which they had to come from behind to do that and old navy teams that ran the option were not known for coming from behind, but with this hybrid wing t it's much more balanced out there and, uh, they were able to fight their way back and end up pulling out the win 21 to 20 and I know you mentioned that, uh, you know, when you were back um or a friend of yours went to a uh cross-country meet and they were, they were its army.

Rocky: 29:02

Again, my family, huge college football fans, and I always say the the best game in college football, the biggest rivalry, is Michigan-Ohio State. They call it the game. A lot of people say America's game is Army and Navy. Talk to us how special that rivalry is, not just in football but just in general at Navy. What's it mean when you guys play Army in any sport?

Karl: 29:24

Yeah, think. Uh. Well, first of all, I do want to speak to and basically amplifying some of your remarks between uh, you know, when it comes to ohio state, michigan, which I I do agree with. When you talk about ranking rivalries, if you look at the rivalries that I hesitate to use the word relevant because that would imply that Army and Navy is irrelevant, but I think, a better choice, the ones that have national impact. Especially when it comes to the college football playoff and stuff like that, there's no arguing that Michigan-Ohio State is the number one rivalry. You could probably go through the years, going back to the 1950s, and you can start marking okay, whoever won this Rose Bowl's on the line, potential national championship, and then you go on to the playoffs. Same sort of thing. Army and Navy doesn't have that sort of cachet, I guess.

Karl: 30:18

But I will make the argument that Army and Navy is the most and I'll use the word storied rivalry in college athletics because of just the, the atmosphere that surrounds it. Right, I mean, there's guys on the field competing that ended up going to war and became war heroes, or they were killed in action or something like that, and that to me, and there's some incredible stories. I don't know if you've read any of John Feinstein's books, but he's got some incredible stories about some of the folks that played in the Army-Navy game. And to me that's what makes it so special is because you have that pomp and circumstance of the march on with the Corps, cadets and the Brigade of Midshipmen. You have the coin toss where you have somebody from the administration out there flipping the coin and everything, and just you know the flyovers, you know all that kind of stuff.

Karl: 31:18

There's just so much that goes into it and I think that, especially when you look at the stories that surround some of these players, especially going back you know 40, 50, 60 years, it's pretty amazing and you know, sometimes it just kind of makes your you know kind of raises goosebumps on you because it is so special. And then you know there's the quality of the games themselves. I mean, we've had, you know, navy's won a couple of times recently where they were, you know, considered upsets. Army won a couple of years ago on a you know fumble at the goal line which you know, if the Nets could have held on to it they would have been, uh, probably another upset there. But uh, yeah, the way some of these games finish are just amazing. Navy's got a 14 game winning streak, a 14 year winning streak at one point from 2002 to 2015 we'll call it and uh, you know just a lot of stories there, that's for sure.

Rocky: 32:11

You know, and I respect that because when you watch that, game and like you know and I respect that, because when you watch that game and like you know, you got auburn alabama, you got north carolina and duke and basketball where they they hate each other. Right, they jawed each other the whole game and it's like when you watch army navy play, it's just four quarters of really physical football and then at the end of the game when both teams line up you you see them hugging each other. It's like these guys are going to go to battle when their career is over and they're going to be representing our country and I think that whole atmosphere, if you watch that game and you don't get chills watching it, you're not human, because I say that is the game in sports and it just has a different meaning when you watch it.

Karl: 32:53

Yeah, I totally agree with you there and I'm going to. I'll ask you to do one thing after the show is over and everything. If you go to YouTube and you pull up the 2019, you can just type in the search 2019 army Navy game teaser. Okay, and this is like the intro to the army Navy game the Sports puts together every year, and every year they tend to outdo themselves, but, without a doubt, the best one I saw was from that 2019 game and it just took several clips from a speech that President Kennedy made when he was addressing the class of 63 when they graduated.

Karl: 33:30

And I tell you what you listen to that and you don't get a leaky eyeball. You're not human. That's all I can say. And then, of course, navy won the game. Thank God, because I wouldn't want to associate such a great intro with a loss. But it was really, really something and it speaks exactly to what you're saying. I mean, that's just, that's just the uh, the feeling that people get, uh, watching the game. And then, of course, like you said, when the players are finished, uh, you know, competing against each other, they, they serve together and that is uh, that's something you don't see anywhere else.

Rocky: 34:09

So and, as carl you and I were talking before we came on briefly, he's a friend of mine, justin Davis, who was a linebacker coach there for Coach Ken for a while and then he actually got out of coaching because he wanted to start a family and in the coaching world at that level you don't have much time for family time. You're on the road recruiting and all that, but you know, coach Ken and I'll say this is the last couple years from 2020 to 22 were a couple down years for him, but the impact that he had on that school, not just the football program but the entire university itself.

Karl: 34:48

How much did he mean to that school? Well, I tell you what. That was probably one of the best hires that the outgoing athletic director made. Chuck Gladchuck just retired recently. But he first of all, he hired Coach Johnson back in 2002 to just basically get the program back on the right track and Coach Johnson did a terrific job with that and I mean we were lucky to hold on to him for five, seven years or whatever it was. But I just knew yeah, it was seven years, but I just knew that he was not long for Annapolis. He wanted to go to coach at the next level and, sure enough, when he went to Georgia Tech, the only thing I said was man, I hope Gladchuck hires Nia Matalolo, because you got to have continuity in a program like this and sure, if that's what he did so for all those years, it was just nice.

Karl: 35:38

Everybody knew what they were getting into. When they came to play at Navy, it was a triple option offense. It was at the time the defense wasn't the greatest, but when he hired the new defensive coordinator, coach Brian Newberry, back in, you know, prior to the 2019 season that flipped everything. And now, to tell you the truth, during those years where Navy was struggling, it was a defense that was carrying them to any win that they got. It was a defense that was carrying them to those wins until the offense could finally get themselves on track again.

Karl: 36:10

And now you have what I think is the best of both worlds, because you have a defense that is disruptive. They're opportunistic, they are extremely physical and you put that together in an offense that's creative, just really, really deceptive, and I mean they can beat you a number of different ways. So I think that this past year, that 10-3 record really reflected that. Think that that this past year, this 10 and 3 record really reflected that, and I think you know my hope is that if the injury bug stays away, that we can. You know that the mids can repeat.

Rocky: 36:41

You know that that same type of season and you talked about coach Newberry, who was the seventh year at Navy's third as the head coach, and you mentioned last past season 10 wins. I think it's a six six time in school history that they won 10 games in a season. What's the impact he's had just in his year three as the head coach?

Karl: 37:00

I think that and this is another I mean it was a great hire by Coach Niematololo because I felt like by the time when, I guess, gladshaw made the decision to move on from Coach Ken, which really broke my heart, I didn't really want to see that Same here. But, that being said, he made the right move to hire Coach Newberry. I mean, I think that he'd earned the position and I just felt like, well, we just need to find somebody to pick the offense back up and the team should be back on its feet in another couple of years. And the first year didn't go out that great because the offensive coordinator just was not a good fit for the Naval Academy. I mean, I think that and I could tell this too because I would watch all the press conferences and stuff and I found this out later because I knew the.

Karl: 37:49

You know, I had interviewed the quarterback's mom a couple of times and she'd communicated with me after the fact that, yeah, this guy, it was a tough locker room because he just didn't understand he couldn't adapt his coaching style to the mids schedule. He didn't understand how well, you only have them for two hours, that's it okay. So, you know, figure it out. And he couldn't do it. And it got so frustrating and I think at some point he might have lost the locker room. And so, yeah, coach Newberry had to make a move. And then the guy that he ended up hiring, coach Chronic I mean, he's the one that he wanted in the first place, but he wasn't taking no for an answer. So he went to Gladchuck and said, hey, we need to do what we need to do to get this guy, otherwise I can't make any promises in terms of what the offense is going to be. And Kronick, he overperformed. I mean talk about exceeding expectations, I mean, my God.

Rocky: 38:48

And that American Conference too. Last year you were talking about Tulane, but Army won 12 games. Tulane, but Army won 12 games. Tulane won nine games. Memphis won 11 games. East Carolina won I think seven or eight. South Florida won seven and South Florida is going to be better this year than what I think people are going to give them credit for. But that conference over the last two or three years has gotten so much better. And some of those top teams they're putting six seven teams in bowl games now every year. Yeah, that's right, they're putting six seven teams in bowl games now every year.

Karl: 39:13

Yeah, that's right. In fact, I think this past year it was eight and they finished six and two. So not too shabby there, and I think that they always have somebody. I mean they had a few that moved on over to conferences like, for instance, central Florida. But I remember a couple of years. One year Central Florida went undefeated and I'm not sure if they made the college football. I don't think they made the college football playoff that year. No, they didn't. But yeah, they'll always have a team that's threatening to break into that college football playoff. And now, of course, with 12 teams, it's going to be a little bit easier to make that happen. So we'll see.

Karl: 39:51

Now a lot of people are talking about, you know, was, you know, is Navy good enough to make the CFP this year? I said, well, I don't want to get into all that. Okay, I let me just tell you what my goals are as a Navy fan, right, I mean, I look at their schedule and I don't. I'm not one to make predictions or anything like that, but the goals are, you know, beat army, win the command and chief's trophy, which means beat air force, two, all right, and then, if they can snag about, you know, eight or nine wins, that's great. Get to a bowl game and potentially win that, uh, that's it. I mean if and I don't really get all caught up in the hype of this, like because a lot of people are talking them up this past year because they're undefeated, you know, six games into the season, but you know, the people who really follow Navy football understand what kind of program it is and what kind of team it is. They will always be a team that is going to be borderline top 15 to top 25, right in that range. That's a good, that's a good solid program for them, that's a good season for them. And who knows, maybe they catch lightning in a bottle one year. The college football playoff has 12 teams. Now Maybe they get that 12th team, but guess what? They got to play one of the top seeded teams and that might not be too pretty. But you never know.

Karl: 41:10

And, like I said, I, I just like I like to see them, you know, play these top programs and and, uh, invariably they will come away with a win every so I mean, they've, I think they've probably beaten a top 25 team, uh, more, you know, last, last year they did because it was memphis, and then, uh, they ucf a couple times. They beat them two years in a row when they were ranked the biggest win was probably against Houston. About 10 years ago Houston came in ranked sixth. Navy was coming off a loss to Air Force, which is very disappointing, but they ended up knocking off Houston and that was probably their highest. Yeah, that was the highest ranked win since even about the time I graduated they knocked off South Carolina. That was ranked second at the time. I still I'm trying to figure out how they won that game. I actually watched a video of it on youtube one time. It was I think the gamecocks just dressed out a bunch of their fans as players because, you know, maybe just ran them right off the field.

Rocky: 42:10

I think the one year you're talking about, when, when ucf won, they finished 12 and oh, they didn't have the playoffs then and scott frost was the head coach and I remember at the end of the season ucf celebrated and put a banner up at the school that they won the national championship. Um, because at that time obviously they didn't have the playoff and they didn't get selected to play in one of the big. I think at that time it was one of the bcs games, right? So you answered my question on expectations for this coming season and I think it's, it's realistic.

Rocky: 42:37

I think last year, you know, at one point in time they were, they were saying what non-power five team now they call it the power four outside of the top 25 has a chance to get into the playoff? And I remember they mentioned Navy, they had mentioned Army because they were both undefeated and they're on a collision course. And I think now, with that 12-team playoff I think a lot of years you would say, well, navy or Army is probably not going to, or even Air Force is probably not going to make a BCS playoff game as a top four. But now, with that 12 teams, like you said, if you get hot at the right time, they can squeak out maybe a 10-1, 10 and 2, or you know.

Karl: 43:18

There there's a realistic chance now for navy in these teams to get in. Yeah, you're right. I mean, a lot would have to go just about perfect. I don't think they could afford to lose more than one game. To your point, I think that your call was right on there. 10 and 1, you know, maybe two lost, maybe two losses, depending on what that second one is. But uh, they'd almost certainly have to win the conference, um, and then after that it's just up to the folks in the selection committee. But uh, like I said, I mean to me that would be fantastic. But uh, you know, I'm not going to lose any sleep if navy doesn't get into the college football playoff.

Rocky: 43:48

I do tend to lose a ton of sleep if they lose to army, believe me I'm sure you and a lot of the, a lot of the alum would be the same way for if that game, uh, if it doesn't go your way.

Rocky: 43:58

So car the last thing I want to ask and I appreciate you jumping out with me tonight, so we're going to go a half hour. We're a little bit longer than that. What's next for you? When can? When can we expect an, a podcast episode to come out? How can we follow you throughout the season and even beyond football season?

Karl: 44:14

Yeah, well, thanks for asking. Yeah, navy Sports Central is my podcast and I'm, you know, not a whole lot going on in the summer. Right now I was thinking about maybe using the opportunity to pull up, you know, maybe reach out to one of the coaches that you don't hear we don't hear too much about. Like, for instance, this past year we had a couple of guys that won the doubles national championship in squash of all sports right, and I think that'd be kind of cool. I've not talked about squash yet. Maybe we do that. But specifically, I will be doing a football preview, probably in about a month, right before the season starts, and I'll probably have. I'm going to try and get a couple of my classmates on who are the team captains when we were there to kind of, you know, sum up how the fall practices have gone. I mean how the summer practices have gone and, you know, going into the fall, I think, we open up with VMI and then I think after that we have a conference game against University of Alabama, birmingham, and then we get into the rest of the schedule. But, yeah, so Navy Sports Central, I'm probably going to look to record something in about a month that's football related and hopefully I'll be able to stick to that. You know, once every two to three weeks timeframe that I've had in the past.

Karl: 45:25

So and I you can follow me on Instagram. This is CarlDNavy84. And I think I do have a Navy Sports Nation handle as well. So either one of those two those are the main two places on Facebook, by the way, and you don't have to be a Navy grad or anything like that If you want to jump on, you can. But the Navy Sports Nation is a private group but you don't, like I said, you can be just a fan of Navy if you just kind of want to follow some of their sports. Some of their sports. I tend to post there fairly regularly and all you got to do is type that into the search Navy sports nation, answer a couple of questions to jump in, and we got over a thousand people. I'm not saying they're all active, but we do get quite a bit of nice engagement on that when it comes to the different sports, whether it's football, track and field, you know, whatever's in season.

Rocky: 46:11

Well.

Rocky: 46:11

Carl listen I'll. I'll definitely follow you and when you talk some college football, if you need a co-host, you need a guest to come on and talk college football, let me know I'd be more than happy to come on and chat with you, but I hope you had fun. I had a great time chatting with you, learning a little bit more about you, and I've been a big Navy and Academy fan for a long time. I always pull for all the Academies and they're fun to watch, so I really appreciate you taking the time tonight.

Karl: 46:39

All right, thanks, rocky. I appreciate you asking and I'm happy to come back anytime. And I think this is a really good synergistic fit too, because it's with your depth of knowledge in college football. I think we do need to look for an opportunity to do some reciprocity here. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Might be a great way to kick off the season for Navy.

Rocky: 46:51

Sounds good, let me know I appreciate it, carl. Thanks for keeping in touch.

Karl: 46:54

Okay, take care. Bye-bye.

Rocky: 46:56

All right man. So that was Carl Darden Great, great, great guest. I've always been fascinated with the academies, and not even just for a college football fan, but just in sports in general. So give Carl a follow. I'll make sure I post his blog on my page as well. Thanks for following me. Tonight on this podcast, I will post the first episode of the 46 Power podcast, which is everything football. So it could be high school college NFL. We got high school football around the corner, so I'll be bringing on the local coaches, like I always do, talking about the upcoming season. So stay tuned for that. Stay tuned for the Mohawk Valley Sports Watch. It's not going away. I've just been busy running around with my kids on weekends and throughout the week with sports, so I'm not going anywhere. More to come. So I appreciate you following tonight. Hopefully you enjoyed the show. As I say on the Rock Pile, the Rock Pile is where dreams become reality. Have a good evening everybody.